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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 10, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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breakout, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews up in new york. leading off tonight, command never chief. here's another blow to those who argue president obama doesn't have what it takes to protect our country and it's armed forces. the "new york times" reported that the president demanded an extra chopper so if the united states troops got attacked by sp pakistani forces they would be able to fight their way out of the country. and also remind ourses of what many republicans were saying before the pakistan raids. john mccain saying you can't just move in without pakistan's cooperation, wrong. dick china seney saying i have serious doubts about whether
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president obama is prepared to defend the nation, wrong, wrong and wrong. do the democrats actually want to do something about illegal immigration and reform or do they just want the issue so they can bash the republicans. and we may be seeing the first real consequence of the republican plan to ax medicare. a new seat in a conservative western new york district was supposed sp d to be an easy sea the democrats. this is a race with national implications. finally let me finish tonight with what we have learned in the past week about our president as commander in chief. we start with president obama, david sanger is chief washington correspondent for the "new york times" and tyler drumhower the former chooft of the cia in europe. congratulations on this story. here's the headlines before you start, bigger raid unit braced for fight with pakistanis. and obama feared trouble.
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here's the lead paragraph, president obama insisted that the assault force hunting down osama bin laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops. senior administration military officials said monday. david explain. >> well the initial plan, chris, had been for the two attack helicopters, the two that actually landed at the compound to come into the compound and for two backup helicopters to remain in afghanistan, to lower the american footprint and the violation of pakistani sovereignty. as it was described to us, when president obama looked at the plan, he ended up concluding that it would take about 90 minutes for those helicopters to come in and be of any help if in fact a firefight broke out. and so he pressed for adjustments to the plan and that ultimately led to the decision to bring in the four helicopters, one of which you
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may recall was used because one of the attack helicopters of course has that hard landing and had to be destroyed ultimately. they didn't get into a firefight, but i think the importance of the story is that it indicates that president obama was willing to risk what would have been a pretty huge blowup with the pakistanis, even larger than what you have seen now in order to get those troops out of the country. >> tell me about what you know from reporting about how justified that decision was. >> well, i think it was a precaution that was built into an assumption that if they had called the pakistanis to say after the attack began, don't worry, these helicopters are american, the u.s. is going after osama bin laden that they might not be able to get through to the right officers that, the word might not get passed on to the area of the compound. remember the pakistanis were completely in the dark about this operation. >> right.
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were we prepared to fight pakistani troops or even local prefix types police if they got in our way and said turn over that prisoner to us, would we have fought our way out then? >> i suspect so. the instructions that the americans were given were avoid a confrontation at all costs with the pakistanis, but they also didn't want to be in a situation where the american units were either in a firefight or captured by pakistani troops. and remember, this is a garris son town. there's the equivalent of pakistani's west point is about a little under a mile from the site of this house. so the possibility that the pakistani units could have responded more quickly, i think was pretty high. as it turned out, the pakistanis responded very slowly. >> let me go to cairo on this, i can't imagine this in many other countries that we have good relations with, that we have diplomatic relations that we're going to go in there against
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your sovereignty, this is our guy, we're taking him out, if you get in our way, we're going to shoot. >> you've got relations with pakistan, but you've also got what the goal of the operation was and the fact that the president took responsibility for this which is really admirable and then having gone in realized that going into something like this halfway is more dangerous than not going in the all the way. once you commit to something like this, you've got to push very hard to make it come through without any disaster. >> is there any evidence, i don't want to get too pushy on this because i think we did exactly the right thing, most americans via a poll will say the exact same thing. were there any attempts to bring this guy home alive? >> i don't know, but frankly i don't think you send the s.e.a.l.s to arrest people. >> it sounds rough.
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>> but it's the circumstances. >> you don't send the s.e.a.l.s to arrest people, that's pretty rough. is this something that the s.e.a.l.s or any government force would do in a situation where a guy is behind this thing? david, your thoughts? >> chris, the instructions that they had are my two colleagues, tom shanker and eric schmidt have reported back from the pentagon were if he surrendered, they had a unit in place outside of pakistan of course to go interrogate him and so forth. and they had a separate unit for if he was killed in the operation. i think there was a presumption that he would likely not sit around to be arrested and there would be no interrogation, but they were certainly prepared for
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that possibility. >> kbhiwhy were they prepared t interrogate him right away, not bring him back to the united states or some other fwlas to interrogate him? >> i think the shock value would be something they would want something right away. >> let's take a look at the new york poll numbers, 80% now of americans say it was the right decision to kill bin laden. 64% say president obama was right to not release the photos. i found that heartening and thoughtful. here's the public's opinion of president obama's leadership, how it's improved since december based upon this. we're looking at those numbers, they're all in the low 50s right now, nothing dramatic. i guess this isn't really a question for you folks because you're experts on the question of doing it or not, but this question about the bin laden photo, my thought has been this, if you want the terrorism against the united states to subside, don't try to ignite more of it. >> yeah, i didn't really see the
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use in releasing it. people who believe it are going to believe it. the who don't are not. but having made the decision, the important thing is to stick to it, than's good that they didn't equivocate in the end. >> i read in one of the papers, usa today or something, that there's something discussion of it. why are people discussing something that's been decided? >> in the end i think the important fact is that al qaeda bailed them out on this because by last thursday, at least one al qaeda affiliate was reporting, yes, osama bin laden is dead. and you haven't heard since that announcement came out a whole lot of doubts expressed. i'm sure there are some in pakistan. but you haven't seen very much pressure on the white house to release that photo ever since the president made the decision and think that's because there seems to be an acknowledge mmpblt among the terror groups
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or at least among some al qaeda affiliates that in fact that was osama bin laden. >> are you surprised by that? >> i was surprised that they admitted it. >> are you surprised that they didn't seize upon the propaganda goal of sort of creating the notion that he's mythically still alive somewhere, that that was some sort of trick? >> no, i think the people that announced it, i think they were stunned or -- the other story going around pakistan right now is that ayman al zawahri set him up to be killed so there's an alternate story going around. >> bwhy. >> so that he could take over. >> honor among terrorists. here's the prime minister on monday, let's listen to him. >> no other country in the world and no other group has done so much to interdict al qaeda than
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the u.s. and the armed forces. >> i notice it sort of skirts the question of whether they tried to pick up osama bin laden. it simply said they're working hard against al qaeda generally. i didn't like that. i didn't think that was a very clear answer to the challenge put to them. >> the remarkable thing about the isi over the years is they have been aligned with the u.s. in the hunt for al qaeda on mondays, wednesday and fridays, but tuesdays and thursdays, they've been off on their own agen agenda, particularly in alliances with the taliban or at least impolice sent ones. obviously he never answered the question of how osama bin laden could live in a garrisson town this close to the capital for this long. the second thing he said was if you ever try this again with our
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strategic weapons, meaning the nuclear weapons, there will be not only a big breach, but a big reaction and this gets to the central paranoia that this has brought about in pakistan which is that a united states force that could get in under the radar and get osama bin laden might be able to get in under the radar and seize or immobilize some portion of the nuclear force which is their biggest single fear. >> your thought, tom on that question? >> i agree, i think it's the long-term fear is the security of the nuclear weapons, but also remember pakistan is a democratic country, they have elections, he's speaking to the people of pakistan, he's not speaking to the world, so he's trying to answer the question. this is not an unusual way to handle this, he's addressing some of the issues without answering them. >> it's great news tonight to hear once again that there was a clear thinking behind this raid by us and by our people and by
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the commander at the top that the president was wise enough to set the precaution ahead of time that this wouldn't be an undermanned force and that we would be able to bluff our way out of there with force. great reporting for the "new york times." coming up president obama got bin laden while the republicans, wait until you hear this, george w. bush, john mccain, dick cheney, everything they said was wrong, everything they warned about was unnecessary t president came through and they didn't look too good again. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. [ male announcer ] capri sun 100% juice, with a full serving of fruit in every pouch, is a choice you can respect. [ creaking ] other choices... launch me fellas.
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[ male announcer ] nope. capri sun 100% juice. here's some good numbers from president obama from our own nbc news poll. more than half of suburban woman, 55% say they approve of the job he's doing overall. the so-called soccer 34078s, whatever that term means these days. the key demographic in the last
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few election cycles. 50% of those unurban women say they'll vote for the president next move, versus 29% who say they'll vote for the republican, whoever it is. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] doctors have been saying it forever. let's take a look. but they've never actually been able to do it like this. let's take a look. v-scan from ge healthcare. a pocket sized imaging device that will help change the way doctors see patients. that's better health for more people. the new blackberry playbook. that will help change the way doctors see patients. it runs all this at the same time. ♪ why can't every tablet do that?
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this is going to be an amazing segment. president obama not only owns the command never chief mantle, but his decision to get the most wanted terrorist in the world has now proven several prominent republicans namely george w. bush, dick cheney and john mccain wrong in their theories about bin laden and their charges against the president. and right now we're going to knock down those charges with glee with sol land's editor at large john walsh and the national investigative corporate michael us kof. here's what george w. bush said just seven months after the 9/11 attacks. this is george w. bush talking about our number one enemy. >> who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not. we haven't heard from him in a
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long time. and the idea of focusing on one person is really indicates to me that people don't understand the scope of the mission. and he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. so i don't know where he is. i just don't spend that much time on it, really, to be honest with you. i wouldn't necessarily say he was at the center of any command structure. and again, i don't know where he is. i repeat i am not really that concerned about im. >> that was wise ass behavior there. this is the rich kid acting like i don't care about that old girlfriend that dumped me. that was behavioral weirdness right there. we knew he was in that category of hated by americans and to say i don't really think about him anymore. what kind of talk is that?
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>> it's very hard to listen to that, it's very hard to listen to that chuckle. but i think what we should talk about an interesting thing and michael can fill in blanks here i'm sure. but one of the things that's come out in the last week or so are the opportunities that we may have had, maybe not slam dunks to get closer to bin laden that didn't happen because we were already deploying troops and equipment to iraq. so if you listen to that with a certain kind of hindsight and you listen to that remembering that they were making the case they decided it was bigger than bin laden, you know, they were going to blame the whole thing on iraq and lie about it. >> oh, yes, you're always ahead of me. you are this time. in other words don't make it about we were attacked in 9/11, don't make it about afghanistan, don't make it about al qaeda, make it about your topic which is they got to go in and get even for the old man or whatever the topic was. >> to shift the mastermind and the bad guy to saddam hussein in
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iraq. so the more reporting about that comes out the more enlightening it is. >> he said we're going to get the people that knocked down these buildings, in his grandest iconic moment, when we all were behind him, president bush said we're going goat the people that knocked down these building and now he's saying we're not going to get the people that knocked down his buildings. how can he say we're not going to do what i swore we were going to do an ground zero? >> joan is exactly right. that comment that you just played -- >> you're right too. >> look, that comment was march of 2002, exactly the moment when we now know that they had begun serious planning for the war in iraq and it's just a few months after the fateful events at tora bora, which was really the last time we had a shot at bin laden.
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and, you know, he was in the mountains there, and u.s. intelligence operatives were pleading for military support to prevent bin laden from escaping through the mountains of tora bora, to block a corridor, for ground support to block his escape and general tommy franks turned those requests down and we know that those requests in large part came because it was a week or two after he had been ordered by rumsfeld to dust up the war plan for the invasion of iraq and his people were working full-time around the clock on developing that war plan for the invasion of iraq. >> i know. >> one thing the last time, one of the last times i was on we were talking about rumsfeld's book and one of the points that really leapt out at me in rumsfeld's book is that he kind of dismissed the claims that bin laden was at tora bora, which was really startling because
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we -- there is just a mountain of evidence and some of that has emerged, even in the last few months in some of these detainee reports which we have seen from wikileaks showing detainee after detainee describing bin laden having been at tora bora, there was intelligence intercepts at the time, showing he was at tora bora, there really was no doubt that that was the chance to get him and we blew it. >> you know, even by absolutely objective standards, not a question of policy, that it was better to go to the iraq war which i was against, but simply to go after the guy that attacked him. here's president john mccain who was criticizing bush by saying he would take action against bin laden in pakistan if he saw actionable intelligence. >> we would risk a confused leadership of an inexperienced candidate who once suggested
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bombing our ally pakistan. well the best idea is to not broadcast what you're going to do, that's naive, you make plans and you work with the other country that is your ally and friend, which pakistan is. >> boy, he nailed it, didn't he, joan? >> he said exactly the right thing to do and that inexperienced guy really wasn't up to the task, was he, chris? it's ridiculous to listen to and they were either mocking him for being too much of a dud or mocking him for being too much of a hawk and it turns out that as far as we know at this point, he was ice cold about this, he made all the right decisions, he made all the right precautions, he was prepared for everything and he couldn't share what he was doing with our alleged ally pakistan for a lot of sad reasons. and so he pulled it off. >> well, now more of the gang that couldn't think straight, in august of 2009, dick cheney questioned president obama's
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commitment to protect the country as command never chief, let's listen to cheney. >> well, wasn't a fan of his when he got elected and my views haven't changed any. i have serious doubts about his policies, serious doubts especially about the extent to which he understands and is prepared to do what needs to be done to defend the nation. >> i guess he's waiting for more torch. a month later cheney himself went after the president accusing the president again of quote dithering and waffling when it came to crafting a military strategy in afghanistan. let's listen to cheney again. >> it's time for president obama to make good on his promise, the white house must stop dithering while america's armed forces are in danger. make no mistake, signals of indecision out of washington heard out allies and embolden our adversaries, waffling while
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our troops on the ground face an emboldened enemy endangers them and hurts their cause. >> i think john dillinger should play all of these people when they make the movie. the supreme arrogance of we know better, we know how these things should be done. this weaken democrats don't know their responsibility and we do. >> and instead of just thanking him for completing the job they couldn't bleat complete. instead we had dick cheney this weekend insisting that, well, we're really, probably we have abandoned some of the fantastic tactics that got us this far, rather than just giving them credit, just talk about being a man, being a woman, being a mench, just saying job well done, sir, they can't do it, they're incapable of doing it. >> have we ever figured out the
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difference between these two administrations, wre watching now our president and he's not perfect. i'm going to argue about immigration later today, but they at least did what they said they were going to do. this president came in and said i'm going to get bin laden, he put a purpose together, he put a plan together and put a team together and then he doubled down and made the team even stronger. the other administration said we're going to get the people that knocked down the buildings on 9/11 and then he goes off in some totally other direction. will we ever know buy. >> yeah, we discussed it before, it's the one affirmative decision they made that was sort of out of the main stream, didn't have to be made was the decision to invade iraq. but that said, to be fair, look, a lot of the work that led to the killing of bin laden was done by intelligence community professionals and military professionals that transcend both administrations, the piecing together if you follow
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how the trail was put together, how they developed the information on the courier, piece by piece, pebble by pebble as former cia director mike hadden said, it took years. >> 2005 when they were building this mcmansion over there, their equivalent of chappaqua, building their equivalent of this guy, do you think if we had had him in his crosshairs, wouldn't we have noticed it? do you think they could have built that mcmansion and their equivalent of chappaqua, don't you think we would have noticed he was there? >> what we have been told is that we didn't really find this mcmansion, if that's what you want to call it, the compound until august of last year. so and the story of how we found it by following the couriers is a fascinating intelligence detective story u i'm just not sure it links to particular
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political decisions. >> thank you michael and john. . speaker of the house john boehner, even he doesn't seem thrilled. this guy's not a booster for the current list of candidates. [ male announcer ] if you've been to the hospital
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i know him pretty well. i think he's done a great job and he speaks english, which the american people like, english like in plain talk. but mitch danlt daniels is looking for this who's got a real track record of the reforms we need the washington, d.c. >> there's no mention of mitt romney, no mention of tim pawlenty, it seems like speaker boehner is none to too happy with the list of candidates. >> how self-important would one have to be to become tired and annoyed by people asking you to run for president of the united states? i think that anybody who has serious bright people asking them would you consider running for president, if they are so pompous that they say, oh, please stop, please stop, i'm tired of this.
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i'm growing weary that you would ask me to be the leader of the free world, please let me move on to something that's less tiring. i mean come on. it's ridiculous, i mean come on, i'm the kid from jersey who has people asking him to run for the presidency. i'm thrilled by it but i don't want to do it. >> they might find the field so weak, they might try to get this guy in it. last night on fox, donald trump says he now understands why fellow businessman and billi billionaire dumped out of that presidential race of 1992, it was because he was too successful. get this twist of logic. >> i have heard over a lifetime that if you have really accomplished a lot and done a lot, you cannot run for high political office. i can see now why ross perot
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dropped out, he dropped out of the race and he went back in a week later, but he dropped out because he was getting hammered because he did it a lot. >> ross perot was certifiable when he talked about the north vietnamese running across his lawn and ruining his daughter's wedding. he has a choice to risk defeat getting beaten or not, whether to take the risk or not, it's all his choice and it's got nothing to do with ross perot, stop trying to change the subject, it's about your decision whether to go in or get out. president obama goes to el paso for a big speech on immigration. do democrats want to pass the dream act or do they just want to slam the republicans for not passing it? [ female announcer ] this is not a prescription.
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good evening, i'm simon hobbs with your cnbc market wrap. another solid day for stocks today. the s&p gained ten and the nasdaq was up 28. yutilities were the big movers after wells fargo boosted their rating on utility holding company first energy. but it was the tech sector in the spotlight after microsoft's $8.5 billion purchase of skype. the wendys arbys group reported protest in selling off the arby's side of the business. they're also thinking of selling off part of the business to offset rising food costs. and dean foods soared on blockbuster earnings boosted by big demands for its organic milk, and disney shares
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delivered weak revenue and earnings. that's first in cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." wnba to "hardball," today in el paso texas president obama laid out his view on immigration reform. will anything really get done? that's my question and what are the politics that play here? that's says i. clarence and crystal is managing editor of post politics.com. let's take a listen, gentlemen, here's president obama on removing the incentive to come here. i read this been he's going to stop illegal hiring. let's listen. >> the most significant step we can now take to secure the borders is to fix the system as a whole. so that fewer people have the incentive to enter illegally in
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search of work in the first place. >> that's my question, i want to ask you gentlemen for a gut check here s this president who many people like and i like him generally going to get serious about putting together a real immigration package which will actually pass because it has teeth as well as generosity? clarence? >> well, it's one thing to propose a package, another thing to get it through. you see how much trouble he has had getting through budget reforms. >> is it going to be more b.s.? >> i'm not going to say it's more b.s, he has serious reasons to want immigration reform, it plays well for democrats, it plays badly for republicans, especially if they block it. >> i want to know, is he going to try to get a bill passed, meaning a bill that has teeth in it that simpson didn't have, that all the previous talk is, it's like the middle east, it never gets done because both sides disagree. the hispanic community doesn't
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want a bill with teeth in it. the republicans like to throw all the hispanics out of the country who are here illegally. so you never really have a deal. do you see a deal here? >> i don't see signs of a deal, democrats are reluctant to want to put forth any kind of enforcement that's going to result in more deportations. they have already seen more deportations, some 400,000 mexican americans i understand and that's one of the reasons why president obama is being pressured by the hispanic community to do something. >> i'm sorry, clarence, you're missing my point, if people can sign up to stay here legally, you won't have deportations, you say to people, you can't say here illegally, but if you want to say here legally, you have to have citizenship. >> i thought it was very clear, what part of no don't you understand? >> you said there's going to be all these mass deportations.
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>> there's already mass deportations. >> not under reform. >> also president obama can tell his own justice department to do a slowdown, the way he has slowed down arresting medical marijuana folks out in california. >> let me try with chris. i'm not getting anywhere with clarence. i don't want to talk the politics, i know what everybody wants or doesn't want. will there be a real deal here? >> i think i'm agreeing with clarence, there won't be a deal. go and look at any poll in which people are asked what should be the priority of the government works on? economy, health care, jobs, some foreign policy, immigration is way down that list and i'll be honest, the 2012 campaign started the day the 2010 campaign ended. i do not see president obama expending significant political capital and that's what this would take, expending significant political capitol to try and craft a grand bargain, to the extent he's going to
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craft a grand bargain, he's going to do it on debt and spending issues. >> why not. >> because there's politics in it. the hispanic community is a hugely influential and growing community. >> so he's going to not really do anything? >> i think he's going to say i'm doing more and doing things better than your alternative. you get a or b. and president obama is going to say look, here's what i'm doing. >> let me explain, if you care about people in country who have been here because they came here to work here. if you want them to become midwesternized legally so they can vote and have all the opportunity of americans not being picked up. the only way to get a reform bill through carolinas, you've got to stop people from coming across the border. your thoughts? >> you heard his speech today, he wants to get a conversation going, he listed all the good
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reasons that you're talking about, also the obstacles, but we are nowhere near being able to say, yes, we're going to have comprehensive immigration reform, you saw how much trouble there was last time and john mccain has yet to recover from it politically, it's still a hot potato, but now is the time for president obama to spend some capital on it, certainly shift the conversation away from spending and balancing the budget and over toward an issue that plays well for him politically. >> i agree to everything you have just said about you need to have both sides give if you really care about this issue, i don't think clarence is questioning whether president obama cares about the issue, it's acan you find a way to hav a policy with teeth in it that people whether get behind? can you have a path to citizenship that people will get behind? the president can't do this by executive fiat.
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this has to move through congress. >> if you say to people, look, everybody wants to have -- everybody reasonable understands you're not going to send 11 million people out of the country who have lives here. but you have to create a system where you actually become an american, you'll never get that until you outlaw futile legur f immigration. thank you clarence, thank you, chris. up next there's a special election in congress for western new york right now in two weeks and the democrats coming on strong on the issue of medicare. the republicans plan to try to kill it. we're going to talk to the democrat in that race, it looks like she can win this. engine powered a ram truck.. it roared to life out here. and proved itself here,
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so they can save more lives. bringing better health to more people. ♪ >> announcer: this past year alone there's been a 67% spike in companies embracing the cloud-- big clouds, small ones, public, private, even hybrid. your data and apps must move easily and securely to reach many clouds, not just one. that's why the network that connects, protects, and lets your data move fearlessly through the clouds means more than ever. washington democrats are hoping they can steal this election so they can continue to move their agenda, which is more taxes and higher spending. >> steal this election? is that how you win a license? we're back as house speaker bain
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nev boehner. it's a congressional seat that happens in two weeks. here's more of the speaker, let's listen. >> jane will work with us to stand up to nancy pelosi and the liberals of washington, d.c. and say no to the bailouts, say no to the stimulus and no to the continued tax and spend crowd that's down there. >> she faces a real election for congress. the race is rapidly receiving national attention because hoko here's one of her ads, less than listen. >> jane corwin said she was vote for the 2012 republican budget that would essentially end medicare. seniors would have to pay $6,400 more for the same have to pay $ for the same coverage but the plan jane corwin supports would cut taxes for the wealthiest americans. the budget would overwhelmingly
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benefit the rich are. kathy hoagle says cut the deficit but do it the right way, protect medicare and no more tax breaks for multimillionaires. >> i'm kathy hokele and i approve this message. >> she is the clerk of erie county. where do you stand on the former speaker? >> i want people to know i'm a very are independent democratic. we have gotten very far being out here talking republicans and democrats in this district. i'm willing to work with everybody, i think a hallmark of my candidacy you following work with both sides aisle on the issue. i draw a line in the sand. i will not support the republican plan to decimate medicare while giving huge tax breaks to the very wealthiest in this country. i'm happy to be on the democratic side of that issue
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for sure. >> let me ask you, how do you win a district that was jack kemp's district, jack quinn's district. can you be a democratic congresswoman from a republican district? >> i expect to be in about two weeks. again, my hallmark is that i bring both sides together as a county clerk so i know how to work with both sides of the aisle. i think people up here know me. they know that i'm a fighter and that i will go to washington to protect them. whether you are democrat or republican, you just want somebody who is looking out for you who has got your back and that's what i'm hearing from seniors, even republican seniors are supporting me. >> you're the canary in the mine, the first test of the republican plan to kill medicare. what are seniors like republicans -- my dad was a big republican but he loved medicare, he loved it, because it was the first time in his life he got something, you know? he paid into it when he was working, he really like it when he retired at 65 what are people up there talking to you about when they hear about this boehner-approved, republican-approved plan to
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basically get rid of medicare and give you something from borders what do you call them, little -- gift cards, supposed to buy health insurance at the age of 75 with it? it is such a joke. your thoughts. >> well, basically, people up here are talking about the fact that this is not charity to them. as you mentioned your father, he paid into the system since your high school job so this is something that you're entitled to when you hit 65. the glad we are going to break the contract we have had with our seniors since 1965 is wrong and the seniors up here, no matter what their party affiliation think it is grossly unfair. if you are claiming that there is such a huge deficit we need to get costs under control, why do you do it on the backs of the seen jurors in why aren't we looking at other sources? again, big oil getting continued tax breaks, the absolute megarich in this country going to continue getting tax breaks. i think it is not an intellectual argument i'm going to buy, nor do the people in this district. >> the problems that -- >> let me -- professional
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politician, let me give you an easy one, you will think this is hard it is easy. you said you are an independent democrat. well, maybe i am, too, intellectually. pick an issue where you clearly are going to disagree with the democratic leadership in congress, just pick one issue, one issue out of a million where you will take on steny hoyer and you will take on nancy pelosi, just to prove your bona fide as a democrat. >> oh, i would be happy to i don't think that the plan that's on the table by the democrats should be increasing taxes on people making 200 or 250,000, because when i'm talking to people in my districts on main street and brockport, small communities, those are also small business people and a tax on them would hurt them and their ability to create jobs in this district which this area needs jobs. we don't -- we are not doing well. our unemployment is higher than the national average. i'm not going to do anything to make it harder on small business to expand. so i disagree with that level that is a huge difference right there. >> that san easy one.
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how about a hard one? ha! you are not for raising taxes that take a lot of nerve. where are you -- okay, you have answer hide question. let me ask you, the odds right now are what in this case race? is this going to be a big headline when you win or what? >> well, since we are the underdogs coming into this, again, i have been outspent by two multimillionaires. my republicans' net worth is upwards to 60 to $160 million. my other opponent, tea party candidate worth $18 to $20 million. as you mentioned, i'm a public servant. >> why don't you raise taxes on these people? >> pardon me? >> why don't you raise taxes on these zillionaires you run against u said you won't raise taxes on them. why not? >> no, no accident say that. i said i would not put the burden on the middle class and small businesses. i have no trouble with making the wealthiest people in this country pay their fair share. >> over 1 million then? >> i would say i'm looking at over 500,000 i think that's fair. >> i nailed you down. thank you so much, good luck in the race. kathy hochul running for congress in the jack kemp district. when we return, let me
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finish with what we have learned lately about our president as commander in chief. you are watching "hardball," only on msnbc. numbe, and i thins is spending too much money on printing. i'd like to put you in charge of cutting costs. calm down. i know that it is not your job. what i'm saying... excuse me? alright, fine. no, you don't have to do it. ok? [ male announcer ] notre dame knows it's better for xerox to control its printing costs. so they can focus on winning on and off the field. [ manager ] are you sure i can't talk -- ok, no, i get it. [ male announcer ] with xerox, you're ready for real business.
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let me finish tonight with a big story about president obama and pakistan. what we have learned is that the president made sure that there would be no one in the way if we got bin laden no local police demanding territorial jurisdiction no army unit saying we were violating national sovereignty. nobody would be able to stops
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because the americans were apparently under orders to shoot their way out of there this is cowboy stuff, none of this coalition of the willing. obama didn't care if pakistan was willing or not. this guy killed our people, bin laden, he was ours. normally, i would like to see a multilateral approach to life and death matters. we have no more right to tell another country what to do than they do us, certainly not on the other guy's territory. this was different this was pursuit. not hot pursuit but pursuit nonetheless, the worst villain in our history. while certainly up there with john wilkes booth, lee harvey oswald and jails earl ray we got them. the president demand that we send in a strong enough team to break out there no matter what tells you something about the quality of this alliance between these o countries. the more we learn about this the better, the smarter, the tougher america looks. that's had "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. more politics ahead with cenk uygur. good evening, i'm
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